‘India does not become an electoral autocracy if Yuvraj cannot get power’

In an exclusive interview with Diwakar, Akhilesh Singh and Sidhartha, PM Narendra Modi took time off from his hyperkinetic electoral campaign to speak on a range of hot-button topics. Talking after the second round of polls, a confident PM said NDA was well on course to cross the 400+ target, with BJP reaching the 370 mark — the goal his party set keeping in mind the emotions linked to the abrogation of Article 370.

TOI: What is your assessment after two rounds of polling? Are you still hopeful of crossing the 400 mark?
PM Modi: I have done more than 70 rallies and roadshows so far, after the announcement of polls. Everywhere I have gone, I have seen an unprecedented display of love, affection and support. It is this support of the people that gives us confidence that we are on track to cross the 400 mark. The people have seen what we can deliver and we believe that the people want a better tomorrow, and they know that a vote for BJP means a vote towards development.
The opposition is down and out after two phases of polling. In the first phase, it was out and after the second phase, it is out. For us, one of the main reasons we want to win 400 seats is to protect the rights of SCs, STs and OBCs in our country. We want a thumping majority so that the evil designs of the opposition to take away their reservation and rights, and give them to their vote bank are foiled.

But the opposition says you are aiming for a super majority because you want to change the Constitution?
It is ironic that people who have changed the Constitution the maximum number of times are saying that we will change the Constitution. But before asking such a question, you should analyse my track record. You should study my work and actions right from the time I became CM and see if you find any such thing done by me. It is unfair to me if someone makes an allegation and you take that allegation on face value and start asking me questions on it.

When you set 370 seats as the target for BJP and 400 for NDA, did you do so because you were concerned that complacency may set in among party cadres and even voters? You seem to have enlisted voters, setting a target for them as much as for yourself. But the optimistic ‘Abki Baar 400 Paar’ pitch and target of 370 seats for BJP also carries the risk of generating cadre complacency. Did you ever think that it might harm the party?
The party’s slogans reflect the sentiments of the people. It is the collective voice of the citizens who recognise our efforts and want to see even further change. But the genesis of this ‘Abki Baar, 400 Paar’ slogan is very interesting and emotional. Article 370 has been a very emotional issue for us, our karyakartas and the people of India. People have waited for generations for this to happen. Abrogation of Article 370 has been a driving force for our karyakartas for decades. When people saw that our govt did this, it made them very emotional and the feeling among people was that we should give 370 seats to the party which abrogated Article 370. And hence, the slogan, ‘Abki Baar, 400 Paar’ for the NDA emanated from among the people. It was an organic and a never-seen-before phenomenon where people are themselves setting a target for our victory
As a karyakarta myself, I can attest that no complacency sets in within BJP. All top leaders of our party are constantly in the field, among the people. Our karyakartas are putting in huge efforts. In fact, in several places, you would find only BJP karyakartas at the booths. We are also seeing a large number of people who are passionate about the country taking time out to volunteer for BJP in cities as well as villages. This kind of support from society is helping us immensely. A new phenomenon that is being seen is the beneficiaries not only voting for us in large numbers, but also motivating others in their circle to do the same.

Rahul Gandhi has said that it is too hubristic and BJP is headed for the ‘India Shining’ moment of 2004 when it had crashed to a shock defeat. Your comments? Unlike in 2004, when BJP pushed away allies, the party has this time enlisted new ones
The

Congress

party’s Yuvraj should be the last person to be talking about hubris. But it is true that now the Congress party is dependent only on shocks and surprises. Their only hope is that there will be some miracle to make them win the elections. Even their most veteran and important leaders have given up and conceded the elections. Each election is based on contemporary issues and, so, comparing them is not correct. In 2024, not only have we got new allies but we have unprecedented support of the people, which gives us the confidence of a spectacular win.

How do you assess your prospects in south India? You have made a big push in Tamil Nadu and Kerala.
The prospects are very good. It is not I who made a big push, it is, in fact, the other way round. The people of south India have made a big push to create space for BJP. Wherever you go in the South, the acceptance and affection shown by the people has been unprecedented. People in south India have seen govts of only Congress or regional parties. They have seen how these parties have perpetuated only corruption, nepotism, misgovernance, divisiveness, vote-bank politics and a very regressive approach to governance. People have also seen their hate for Indian culture and heritage. As a result of these reasons, people are fed up of Congress and regional parties.
On the other hand, people have seen our governance at the Centre and have also seen the impact of our welfare schemes reaching them. They see a ray of hope in BJP and are seeing BJP as a credible alternative. BJP was the single largest party in south India in 2019 and this time it will be the single largest party by a huge margin. The results from the South will see multiple myths broken this time. Our mind-share has already increased and you will see that our vote share and seat share will also increase in a huge way.

Last time, BJP swept Karnataka but it suffered a big setback in the assembly polls. The talk is that your tally from the state will shrink. What is your assessment?
We have been hearing this talk in every election. People who are talking about our tally shrinking have shrunk to 50-odd seats themselves. People of Karnataka and BJP have a special relationship. The support for BJP saw a massive increase in 2019 and this time, our 10-year record of delivering strong economic growth, strong national security and strong welfare programmes will ensure NDA will win all 28 seats in Karnataka. NDA has been further strengthened by the addition of JD(S).
Congress leaders are busy fighting to become CM while the state is suffering. The Congress govt has deceived the people of the state through faulty and half-baked implementation of their promises. People of Karnataka are fed up with the increasing lawlessness in the state and with the halt in progress of important infrastructure projects. They are fed up with the increasingly long power cuts and lack of water. People of Karnataka are repenting their vote to Congress in the state election. They will once again place their trust in the proven Modi guarantee.

Congress’s guarantees played a big role in its victory in the assembly polls in Karnataka and Telangana. Do you think ‘Modi ki guarantee’ can trump them?
For me, guarantee is far more than a word. It is a very sacred expression for me. It is linked to my hard work and my credibility. It is an outcome of my entire life in public service. When I speak about guarantee, it pushes me to work even harder for the people. When I attach such importance to my guarantees, naturally people also realise it. People see that whatever guarantee Modi gives, he fulfils it, no matter what the circumstances. From providing tap water connections to rations, from building houses for the poor to expressways, Modi is delivering on the guarantees made to people. There are no ifs and buts to Modi’s guarantees. For the Congress party, their promises are just a way to fool people to gain their votes. They have neither credibility nor the intention to fulfil their promises. They had given many guarantees since Independence. Look at what happened to the biggest guarantee given by their tallest leader: the one of removal of poverty in 1971. Successive Congress PMs had spoken about removing poverty but nothing happened for decades. The poor were living without basic necessities like a house, toilet, water connection. Corruption continued unabated. Countries which became independent around the same time as India marched way ahead of us in terms of their economies. India was considered as one of the ‘Fragile Five’ nations before we came to power. So, for the people, there is no comparison between Modi’s guarantees and Congress’s broken promises.

Congress has accused BJP of attempting communal polarisation in Karnataka and elsewhere while BJP has charged it with appeasement. How is this playing out?
Media should look at actions and not allegations. Look at what all has happened in Karnataka. Bomb blasts, brutal murder of a daughter, attack on people doing bhajan-kirtan… During bomb blasts, the state govt tried its best to mislead people. In the murder of the daughter, the media is showing how the father is going around asking for justice. He is from the Congress party, but still he is not getting justice. If this is not appeasement, what is it? It is not polarisation to show that Congress has violated the Constitution and enacted laws providing reservation on the basis of religion. Our Constitution clearly prohibits reservations based on religion but the Congress govt in Karnataka reversed the law passed by BJP to provide reservation to OBCs and gave it to Muslims, classifying all Muslims as OBC. Even the National Commission for Backward Classes, a constitutional body, criticised this as against principles of ‘social justice’.
The Congress govt in Telangana has recently said that it will replicate this move. This proves that Congress wants to reduce the reservation provided to SCs, STs and OBCs across the country and give it to minorities. What else can one expect from a party whose prime minister said that minorities have the first right on resources of this country?

Is one nation, one poll going to be on the top of your ‘to do’ list in the third term? What about UCC? Will the Centre be an enabler or leave it to states?
For the longest time, govts have been driven by electoral considerations rather than national considerations. Every year, there would be some or other election taking place and the priority would always be to win the next election, even if it meant trading off the long-term interests of the people of India. It is a matter of concern for us. One nation, one poll is going to ensure that as a nation, our time, effort and resources get invested more productively towards nation-building. A high-level committee, under the chairmanship of former President Ram Nath Kovind, has already submitted a report to President (Droupadi Murmu) prepared after extensive consultations with stakeholders and experts and research on implementing one nation, one poll. In our third term, one will see concrete steps being taken on the matter.
Uniform Civil Code, too, is one of the core agendas of our party. Already, BJP govts in states are mulling over its implementation. Uttarakhand has become the first state to implement UCC. It is clear that separate laws for communities are detrimental to the health of society. We cannot be a nation where one community is progressing with the support of constitutional norms while the another community is stuck in a time warp due to appeasement. We will do everything in our capacity to make Uniform Civil Code a reality in India.

Your opponents in Karnataka and elsewhere have raised the issue of a NorthSouth divide, claiming the Centre discriminates against southern states. Do you see merit in it or is it driven by their need to fund their guarantees?
Raising the false bogey of discrimination is their way of diverting and distracting from their corruption and misgovernance. People of Karnataka proudly sing Jaya Bharata Jananiya Tanujate, Jaya he Karnataka Maate (Victory to you Mother Karnataka, the daughter of Mother India). Does Congress really think its move to further divide India will be accepted by the immensely patriotic people of Karnataka? Every patriotic Indian will reject this artificial and false divide that Congress is trying to create. Congress, in partnership with the Left, has left Kerala nearly bankrupt and is now seeking to do the same in Karnataka and Telangana. It has just been one year since Congress came to power in Karnataka and they have already done serious damage to its thriving economy. Debt incurred by the state govt has massively increased and their empty promises have not resulted in providing welfare to people. In fact, their misgovernance has spooked investors and led to flight of capital from Karnataka. There has been a 46% reduction in FDI and 80% reduction in funds for startups compared to last year in the state.

What is your worry about the current pitch for redistribution of assets? You have said the govt should not be expropriating wealth and assets of people and that a plan to do that is a reflection of the Maoist vision which has caused havoc in so many countries. Do you see this as a real threat?
We should not consider this sinister plan of the Congress party like an idle threat, the threat is very real and stands to hurt our nation irreversibly. This is a clear example of Maoist thinking and ideology. It is saddening to see the Congress party and its Yuvraj carrying forward such Maoist vision which is a recipe for disaster. You would have seen the Yuvraj saying that we will do an X-ray. This X-ray is nothing but raiding every home. They will raid farmers to see how much land they possess. They will raid the common man to see how much wealth he/she has earned through hard work. They will raid the ornaments of our women. Our Constitution protects the property of all minorities. This means that when Congress talks of redistribution, it cannot touch the properties of minorities, it cannot consider waqf properties for redistribution but it will eye the properties of other communities. This will sow complete and irreversible communal disharmony.
This is something we have to be very careful about, we cannot let anyone harm the country and its people, whatever reasons they may have. Our nation, the welfare of each and every one of our citizens is our first and foremost priority. Our govt doesn’t design policies to benefit a majority, we do not make policies that will benefit minorities; we make policies that benefit our nation and its 140 crore citizens without discrimination.

As the size of the Indian economy grows, there are discussions about equity and inequality. You don’t seem to see wealth tax and inheritance tax as solutions.
I do not think they are solutions by any stretch of imagination. These are actually dangerous problems disguised as solutions. Would you work day and night if the govt will take away your money in the name of redistribution? Today, we are empowering 3 crore women to become Lakhpati Didis. Such policies will ensure that women don’t become Lakhpatis and their aspirations don’t progress. If someone has taken a Mudra loan and is progressing, his growth will be stunted. Our street vendors who are now growing due to our policies will also not be able to grow. Today, we are the third-largest startup ecosystem in the world. Such policies will kill the startup revolution by our youth. This policy is a way to please their vote bank.
If we really want to ensure people’s growth, we just need to remove barriers and empower them. This unleashes their entrepreneurial potential as we have seen in our country; even in tier 2 and 3 cities, which are giving rise to a lot of startups and sports stars. These reasons are why wealth redistribution, wealth tax etc have never been successful: they never removed poverty, they just distributed it so that everyone is equally poor. The poor remain stricken with poverty, wealth creation stops and poverty becomes uniform. These policies sow discord and block every road to equity, they create hatred and destabilise the economic as well as social fabric of a nation.

Barring Ram Mandir, there has been no emotive issue in play this time around. You seem to be optimistic that people will consider improvements in their lives and prospects and give you a ‘positive’ vote. Cases relating to Kashi and Mathura temples are in court. Rather than wait for a lengthy legal process, can these issues be sorted out by discussions between religious leaders of both communities?
Yes, Ram Mandir is an emotive issue for the people of our country. It is a civilisational struggle of 500 years which has been resolved and the prayers of generations of Indians have been answered. But you are wrong in saying there is no other emotive issue. A ‘mahila’ getting a tap water connection, LPG connection, toilet and becoming a Lakhpati Didi and having the power to dream of a better future is an emotive moment for her and her entire family. For a youth who wants to start his own business and provide for his family and has aspirations to further expand his operations, getting a collateral-free Mudra loan is also a big emotive moment. A ‘kisan’ getting his ‘samman’, a father being able to provide the best treatment to his child due to Ayushman Bharat Yojana, a street vendor opening a second cart due to PM-SVANidhi and transacting entirely on UPI: all these mark emotive moments for the entire country. Improvement of living standards is an emotive issue which is resonating strongly in this election. For a large number of people of this country, they are seeing for the first time that they can have a better future and achieve their dreams, which is an emotive issue for them.
As far as Kashi and Mathura are concerned, I will not comment much as the cases are sub judice. But we are committed to developing our cultural heritage. Our manifesto speaks about the aim to boost cultural tourism across the country and develop temple spaces and cultural spaces of all religions in India as world-class destinations for pilgrimage and tourism. The massive development taking place in our temple towns will not only help the pilgrims but also the local economy.

In 2019, welfare schemes ranging from Ujjwala to PM Awas Yojana had reached people for the first time on a big scale. Voters endorsed the schemes and voted for BJP. This time, the schemes are not so new or unique. Will delivery of schemes still be a factor that will influence voter choice the same way?
If you look at our manifesto this time closely, you will observe that we have not only expanded our schemes but have also reinvented them as per the current aspirations of the poor. Take Mudra Yojana for example. We brought around an entrepreneurship revolution through this scheme and now we will double the loan amount to match the aspirations and requirements of our entrepreneurs. Take electricity for example. We ensured electricity reaches more than 3 crore households and 18,000 villages for the first time. Now we have come up with the PM Suryaghar Muft Bijli Yojana to ensure that people get free electricity. Take startups for example. We brought proactive policies and ensured that startups get all support. Now we want to make India a startup hub.
So, you can see that there is continuity because we don’t want to change our direction when we are successful. But we are reimagining the scale and scope of schemes. The poor who are exiting poverty should not lapse into poverty again. The progress achieved should continue. This approach will ensure that people’s aspirations are also fulfilled and also help achieve a Viksit Bharat. Our manifesto has only things which are achievable. We don’t believe in making false and unrealistic promises that cannot be delivered.

Sections of the opposition like INDIA consistently raised questions over the credibility of EVMs. They had alleged tampering in 2014 and, again, in 2019…
I think our Supreme Court has given a good closure to this issue. The Supreme Court judgment speaks in detail about the importance of EVMs and the transparency they bring. The opposition always wants to drag the nation towards the era of booth capturing, which is only possible through paper ballots. I don’t think the members of INDI Alliance have ever been bothered about logic and reason when it comes to EVMs. For them, EVMs have always been the convenient scapegoat after defeat. Let us see if it will be any different this time.
Opposition often alleges that there is threat to democracy and also that the country is moving towards being an ‘electoral autocracy’. The charge has found takers in many foreign capitals. Do you see it as a challenge?
This is an example of the scorched earth policy that our opposition is following. Because the opposition is not able to get power, they start defaming India on the world stage. They spread canards about our people, our democracy and our institutions. India does not become an electoral autocracy if the Yuvraj cannot automatically get power. Just because he has to fight elections and the people of India are not impressed by him doesn’t make India less democratic. I don’t think there are many takers for such charges in foreign capitals. They often are more in sync with reality than the ‘certificate shops’ in their countries. When I engage with world leaders, I see genuine admiration for our democratic process and our institutions. When they deep dive into the scale and speed of our electoral process, they are awed by our efficiency.
The govt has been accused of misusing investigating agencies, particularly ED and CBI, to harass political opponents. It has also been alleged that ‘tainted’ politicians turn clean as soon as they join BJP.
It is my request to the media to first do research on these allegations. Instead of introspecting why its functionaries are leaving in hordes, Congress is making such excuses. There are many politicians with no ED or CBI cases against them who have left Congress and joined us. The fact is that just a small fraction of the agencies’ cases is related to political figures. Of the corruption cases probed by the ED, only 3% involve politicians. The remaining 97% are linked to officials and criminals. Action is being taken against them too. Over the last 11 years, out of 10,622 preliminary inquiries and regular cases being investigated by the CBI, only about 1-1.5% of the total cases involved politicians. This debunks the claim of a politically-motivated modus operandi. Another interesting fact is that before 2014, the ED attached assets worth only Rs 5,000 crore, whereas in the last 10 years that amount has increased to more than Rs 1 lakh crore.
Most importantly, no ongoing investigation has been closed simply because the person involved has joined a particular party. Corruption is a serious problem, and we’re dealing with it seriously. We have come a long way in our battle against corruption in the last 10 years and are now at an inflection point. Investigations by our central agencies also extend to high-profile bureaucrats, resulting in the identification and attachment of proceeds worth over Rs 16,000 crore. These numbers show the agencies’ commitment to being fair and effective in tackling economic offences.

In Delhi, we have a situation of a sitting CM being in jail. Although the law is silent on this, it is against convention. Do you see this becoming a precedent?
I think it is the media’s responsibility to show the people the full perspective on this issue, how people of Delhi are suffering, and what the courts have said about the case. I am optimistic that this will not become a precedent. I feel other politicians won’t be so lacking in morals and will not go to this extent.
NDA-appointed governors have been at loggerheads with some opposition-governed state govts which have accused Raj Bhavans of interfering in their work. How would you respond to these allegations?
Congress party, which converted Raj Bhavans into Congress Bhavans, has no right to speak about the sanctity of the governor’s post. Before I took on the role of prime minister, I was chief minister of a state for more than a decade. In those years, I worked under Congress governors. I respected them and they respected me, despite our differences, and this was the case for many years. Perhaps for the first time since India’s Independence, we’re seeing this level of unprecedented attacks on our governors in various states. We must understand that the governor acts as a bridge between the Union and state govt, bringing in much-needed balance in administration to an otherwise diverse and vast nation. It is very unfortunate that in certain states, we are hearing about workers of political parties stopping the governor’s convoy, and in some states, even throwing petrol bombs at the Raj Bhavan. This kind of behaviour is alarming and unacceptable. When such incidents happen, they raise serious concerns about the overall law and order situation in the state. It indicates a breakdown of authority and respect for the rule of law.
As far as Raj Bhavan’s interference in state affairs goes, we need to take a look at history. Which party and people in power misused Article 356 the most to paralyse state machineries that they disagreed with? Which prime minister used Article 356 fifty times to topple elected govts led by opposition parties? And this begs the question: How many elected state govts have been toppled unethically since 2014? None. Instead, there has been a rise in cooperative federalism, with efforts to foster better relations between the Centre and states. The governor represents the constitutional authority of the state, and their position should be respected by all parties, regardless of political differences.

You have attempted to expand the concept of employment beyond govt jobs to selfemployment. Do you see your attempt succeeding in view of the entrenched bias for govt jobs?
Our efforts have been to expand the spectrum of opportunities for the youth, be it public sector, private sector or entrepreneurship. Our 10 years will be remembered for creating the maximum number of opportunities across all three segments. Rather than argue that one kind of job is better or another, we have focused on improving the overall pool of opportunities available for the youth. The results are visible. The annual Periodic Labour Force Survey data shows us that between 2017 and 2023, the labour force participation rate has increased from 49.8% to 57.9%. The unemployment rate has gone down from 6% to 3.2%. Between 2017 and 2024, over 7 crore new EPFO subscribers have been added. Over 8 crore new businesses have been started with Mudra alone and each business has supported 1-2 people. This means more than 15 crore opportunities have been created. Now add to this Startup India, Stand-up India loans and SVANidhi loans, the entrepreneurial sector itself has completely transformed. We have opened several new avenues for the youth. Space sector, which was not even thought about some years ago, is flourishing today.
Our gig economy is thriving and employs lakhs of people, with over 20% engaged in highly skilled jobs. Our digital economy is also growing exponentially with over 6 crore jobs generated till 2019; a number that may double in the next few years. A recent report has said that in the past decade, the real estate sector has seen the creation of over 3 crore new jobs. I regularly attend Rozgar Melas which is the largest-ever drive to give govt jobs where we have given recruitment letters to lakhs of youth.
Your vision of ‘Viksit Bharat’ in 2047 is still 23 years away from becoming a reality. By the time it is realised, you will be close to 95 years. Still, to your supporters and many others, you are central to that vision.
India becoming Viksit Bharat is not Modi’s vision. It is the vision and will of 140 crore Indians that when the nation celebrates the 100th year of Independence, it should be a developed nation. I find myself extremely fortunate that I have been an instrument to realise the dreams and aspirations of my countrymen. The speed and scale of our work reflects our eagerness to take the nation to new heights. Our model of saturation shows our commitment to open the doors of prosperity for every family. Our push towards technology and newer opportunities is ensuring that our yuva shakti reaches its full potential. Our borders today are more secure than ever, our nari shakti is the one leading social change, our infrastructure is acquiring global standards and our economy is turning more and more aatmanirbhar. In the last 10 years, we have built a solid foundation for the nation’s growth to take flight. That is why I say that what you have seen till now is only a trailer. There is a lot that I want to do. Let me assure you, Modi is blessed by 140 crore Indians. He will not stop till the dream of Viksit Bharat is achieved.
You have been credited with raising India’s global stature with a more assertive and ambitious foreign policy. Tell us about your experience of having steered India in a conflict-ridden world in which the pursuit of our national interests seemed, at least to some of our partners in the West, to be at odds with the rules of the international order?
Shouldn’t the goal of our foreign policy be to advance our national interest? Our approach to foreign policy is ‘nation first’. And when we talk about our rise through a ‘nation first’ approach, it doesn’t threaten the world. The world feels the rise of India is good for the world. The world only respects those who stand for themselves. No one respects those who cannot even stand for their national interest. So when we conducted our foreign policy as per our national interest, initially it would have come as a surprise to many. For example, when we went into trade deal discussions looking at our interests in mind, our partners and even the media were surprised to see us doing so. Our partners have realised that it is normal for nations to stand for their national interest. Doing so, in fact, increased their respect for India. They came to terms with a new reality where India is very cognisant of what is good for its people and what is not. Today, the world respects India for being able to ensure that fuel and energy prices for its citizens stayed in control despite the global conflicts.
Whenever I meet world leaders, I see that their interest and attraction for India is increasing. They see the situation in their countries and compare it with how India is a nation brimming with optimism and opportunities. I see genuine respect for India and Indians. Yes, the world is today filled with conflicts and chaos, but there are islands of calm and growth like India. India’s role is more important in the world than ever before.

If your assessment is proven right, you will equal Pandit Nehru’s record of scoring three straight wins. Your views on this rare feat also in view of the contrasting backgrounds you both came from.
To be honest, I do not know about these records. It is your work to analyse such trends. I just keep doing my work. But since you have asked this question, I would urge you to do an analysis of this. You could look at the political landscape at that time, the opposition parties and their leaders. You could look at the level of awareness among people for their rights as well as their education levels. You can look at the media presence. An analysis should be done comparing how the country progressed in Nehru ji’s 10 years versus our 10 years. We are at a very important juncture as the country is preparing a roadmap for the next 25 years and it would enlighten the public.