Day 2 of RFK Jr. confirmation hearings kick off in Senate

Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski, a Republican, raised concerns about Kennedy’s lack of confidence around vaccines, asking him to use his influence to send vaccine messaging free of conflict and bias. 

“We can’t be going backwards with our vaccinations that will allow for this level of prevention and protection,” she said. “You are clearly an influencer. You would not be in this position today, but you can see how your podium, your platform, your voice, can influence so many. So I am asking you on this, on the issue of vaccines, specifically to please convey with a level of authority and science, but also with a level of conviction and free of conflict and free of political bias. These are measures that we should be proud of as a country.”

Sen. Ed Markey, a Democrat from Massachusetts, pressed Kennedy on a trip he made to American Samoa, in which Kennedy reportedly expressed skepticism toward vaccines. 

Kennedy’s 2019 visit to Samoa has recently brought fresh attention to his history of activism focused on raising questions about the safety and effectiveness of the measles vaccine — because his trip came just months before a devastating measles outbreak that claimed 83 lives, many of them young children. 

“My purpose in going down there had nothing to do with vaccines,” Kennedy said, later admitting that he “ended up having conversations” with people he never intended to meet on that trip. 

Markey said the people who sponsored Kennedy’s trip were “anti-vaxxers.” 

“You call them an anti-vaxxer, that’s not what they would call themselves,” Kennedy said. 

A measles outbreak in Samoa prompted a mass vaccination campaign. 

Markey said he worries Kennedy would use his authority and role to spread dangerous misinformation. 

—Kathryn Watson and Dan Ruetenik

Democratic Sen. John Hickenlooper asked Kennedy about whether he’s committed to working to negotiate lower prescription drug prices. The Biden administration worked to negotiate lower drug prices for Medicare, for instance. 

“I’ve spoken to President Trump about negotiations, he’s absolutely committed to negotiating lower drug prices,” Kennedy said. 

“Do you agree that a person who is experiencing severe pregnancy complications should be able to receive emergency care to save their life if that care is an abortion?” asked Delaware Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester, a Democrat.

My understanding of President Trump’s policy is that —” Kennedy started. 

“I’m not asking whether President Trump’s policy. I’m asking you,” Rochester said. 

“If it’s necessary to save the life of the mother,” he said. 

“And would you agree that the ability to provide quality emergency care for pregnant women is essential to preventing maternal mortality?” she said. 

“Providing care for pregnant women, we should be providing care for pregnant women. President Trump wants to do that,” he said. 

“Bottom line for me, women should not be forced to rely on emergency airlifts to other states for life saving care. And to be blunt, in our meeting, your lack of understanding, really, again, was very concerning,” she said. 

New Hampshire Sen. Maggie Hassan, a Democrat, brought up her concern over Kennedy’s approach, getting emotional as she brought up her own personal connection to what causes different conditions. 

“I am the proud mother of a 36-year-old young man with severe cerebral palsy, and a day does not go by when I don’t think about, what did I do when I was pregnant with him that might have caused the hydrocephalus that has so impacted his life,” she said, choking up. “So please do not suggest that anybody in this body of either political party doesn’t want to know what the cause of autism is. Do you know how many friends I have with children who have autism?”

The problem with Kennedy, she said, is his re-questioning of “settled science” on the link between autism and vaccines — a theory debunked by decades of scientific research. 

“Mr. Kennedy, that first autism study rocked my world. And like every mother, I worried about whether, in fact, the vaccine had done something to my son. And you know what? It was a tiny study of about 12 kids. And over time, the scientific community studied and studied and studied and found that it was wrong,” she said. “And the journal retracted the study. Because sometimes science is wrong. We make progress. We build on the work. And we become more successful. And when you continue to sow doubt about settled science, it makes it impossible for us to move forward.”

She said Kennedy’s “relitigating and churning settled science” prevents progress on finding out the cause of autism and treating kids.

Sen. Andy Kim, a Democrat from New Jersey, asked if Kennedy will commit to continuing to invest in the development of MRNA vaccines, of which Kennedy has been extremely critical. Most of the COVID-19 vaccines, of which Kennedy is a skeptic, are MRNA vaccines. 

“I’m not gonna pick a vaccine right now, you know I need to look at all the data,” Kennedy said, adding he will continue to research “every kind of vaccine.” 

Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley, a Republican, brought up a rule issued by President Joe Biden’s administration requiring doctors who receive federal funding to conduct gender-affirming care, including hormones, puberty blockers and surgeries. 

“My question to you is, will you rescind this rule that imposes this radical policy?” Hawley said. 

“Yes, I will,” Kennedy said. “Just from a common sense, if you’re a patient, do you really want somebody performing surgery on you who is morally opposed to that surgery? It doesn’t make any sense. We need to embrace diversity in this country. Are people who believe that’s important, I respect them. We should hear them out. We should debate. We should have a congenial conversation. There are also people who believe that it is an atrocity, and they need to be listened to too and we need to embrace diversity and make room for diversity in this country and not force people to do things that are against their conscience.”

Kennedy said children aren’t allowed to drink or drive automobiles, “because they have bad judgment.” 

“They are flooded with hormones. Their brains are still in formation. Their sexuality is still in formation,” he said. “Allowing them to make judgments about that are going to have life-changing, forever implications for the rest of their life,” he said, but added, “People who have gender differences should be respected, they should be loved. Sometimes love means saying no to people.”

Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut revisited a question from Kennedy’s hearing Wednesday in front of the  Senate Finance committee, in which another Democratic senator asked if Kennedy had compared America’s vaccine program with the Catholic Church’s pedophilia scandal.

“You said you never said that, now I’m not asking you to explain—” Murphy said. 

“I didn’t say I never said that,” Kennedy said. “I did not say that I hadn’t said that, senator. I said the other question of Nazi death camps.” 

Murphy revisited another question from Wednesday in which Kennedy was asked if he compared America’s vaccine program with the Nazis and the Holocaust. 

“I did not say that,” Kennedy said. 

Murphy also read a 2013 comment from Kennedy suggesting penalties for people who are in charge of America’s vaccine programs.

“I don’t disagree with Senator Mullen. I don’t want an HHS Secretary that’s not going to question science,” Murphy said. “I think it’s important to question science, but you’re not questioning science. You’ve made up your mind. You have spent your entire career undermining America’s vaccine program.”

“As a general matter, do you find it hard to tell what is a conspiracy theory and what isn’t? Is that a general deficit that you find in your own analytical abilities?” Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine, a Democrat, asked Kennedy, previously bringing up statements from Kennedy’s presidential campaign that, as president, he wouldn’t take sides on 9/11.

“My father told me when I was 13 years old, he said, people in authority lie, and that the job of a citizen in every democracy is fierce skepticism,” Kennedy said. 

“You’re an authority, but you wouldn’t take sides on 9/11,” Kaine said. “And you’re admitting, I have a hard time telling what is a conspiracy theory and what isn’t.”

“Senator. I haven’t investigated it. People are allowed to hold that opinion. I’m not going to tell them they’re crazy for holding that opinion,” Kennedy said.

Sen. Tammy Baldwin sought to establish if Kennedy believes a drug where 98% or 99% of people have no complications is clinically safe. 

Kennedy suggested those numbers may not be sufficient for a “healthy individual with zero risks.”

The Wisconsin Democrat said she is talking about the abortion drug mifepristone, which can be taken up to 10 weeks of gestation. Baldwin said the drug mifepristone has been FDA-approved for nearly 25 years, and more than 100 studies have confirmed that 99% of patients who took the pill had no complications.

Kennedy had a simple answer in response. 

“With mifepristone, President Trump has not chosen a policy,” Kennedy said. “And I will implement his policy.” 

Sen. Tammy Baldwin told Kennedy the studies and data he’s asking for on vaccine safety are already out there. 

The Wisconsin Democrat said Kennedy told her there is no post-approval safety monitoring for vaccines, which she said leads her to believe he doesn’t know that monitoring already exists. She asked Kennedy if he’s aware of those monitoring systems. 

Kennedy insisted he is, but said independent scientists aren’t allowed to look at enough information. 

“I’m aware that they’re broken,” Kennedy said of all the post-vaccine monitoring systems. 

Baldwin said she listed only some of the guardrails in place to make sure vaccines are safe and effective. 

“If you want to take a second look at the science like you have said, well, it’s here,” Baldwin said. “It’s available. And it’s conclusive. And saying anything else is undermining vaccines.” 

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, a Republican, did not use his time for a question. Speaking ahead of Murray, he instead called out his Democratic colleagues for criticizing Kennedy for being “open minded” on existing science. 

I think really what we have up here is presupposition, you’ve already concluded,” he said. “That’s what this country’s about. What dissent is about. So I just ask you to look at the larger picture and give the guy a break who says, ‘I just want to follow the science, see where it leads’ without presupposition.”

After his statement, there were cheers and applause heard in the chamber.

Speaking to Kansas Sen. Roger Marshall, a Republican, Kennedy said he got “question after question from the Democrats about measles” at yesterday’s hearing. 

“None of them mentioned diabetes. Didn’t mention heart disease, they didn’t mention cancers,” he said. “We need to refocus if we’re going to save our country.”

Marshall went on to say that Kennedy’s words, written and spoken, have been “so misattributed, exaggerated, sensationalized and taken out of context,” asking him about how ranchers fit into his MAHA — Make America Healthy Again — platform. 

“Will you just speak to my farmers and ranchers back home and tell me, where do they fit in this role of MAHA?” he said. 

“MAHA will not succeed without the cooperation and partnership of agricultural producers of farmers, ranchers across this country,” Kennedy said. 

Democratic Sen. Patty Murray of Washington brought up Kennedy’s past statements in which Murray said Kennedy called the human papillomavirus, or HPV, vaccine dangerous and defective. The vaccine has been proven to significantly lower women’s risk of cervical cancer. 

Murray asked Kennedy if he stands by those past statements. 

Kennedy said he brought litigation on behalf of girls who believed the HPV vaccine harmed them. 

Murray said her question was a “yes or no” question. 

“Let me answer, Senator—” Kennedy said. 

“It’s a simple yes or no,” Murray repeated. 

Kennedy said, “Those questions will be answered by a jury in that trial.”

Pressed as to whether he encourages families to follow the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention schedule for their children, Kennedy responded, “I recommend that children follow the CDC schedule and I will follow the CDC schedule when I get in there.”

Murray also asked Kennedy if he would recommend that Americans get vaccinated against measles. 

“Yes,” Kennedy said. 

Sanders pressed Kennedy further on his vaccine views, following up on Cassidy’s questions.

“As I understand it, dozens of studies done all over the world that make it very clear that vaccines do not cause autism. Now you just said, If I heard correctly, ‘Well, if the evidence is there’ — the evidence is there,” Sanders said. 

They then turned to the COVID vaccine.

“COVID vaccine successful in saving millions of lives?” Sanders asked. 

“I don’t know. We don’t have a good surveillance system. Unfortunately, I don’t think anybody can say that. If you have science that shows —” Kennedy responded.

“Bobby, you say, if I show you — you’re applying for the job. I mean, clearly you should know this, and the scientific community has established that the COVID vaccine saved millions of lives. Your casting doubt, that is really problematic,” Sanders said.

Cassidy, the Republican chairman who spent 30 years as a doctor, pressed Kennedy repeatedly to answer whether he will “unequivocally” reassure Americans that the measles and Hepatitis B vaccines don’t cause autism, cutting Kennedy off when he wasn’t satisfied by the nominee’s answer

Cassidy spent years vaccinating children against hepatitis B to prevent serious disease in the future. 

Kennedy. in the past has suggested those vaccines have links to autism. 

“If you are approved to this position, will you say, unequivocally, will you reassure mothers unequivocally and without qualifications that the measles and hepatitis B vaccines do not cause autism?” the Republican senator pressed. 

“Senator, I am not going into the agency—” Kennedy began to respond, before Cassidy cut him off. 

“That’s kind of a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question,” Cassidy said. “Because the answer is there.”

“If the data is there, I will absolutely do that,” Kennedy responded. 

Cassidy noted that he worked on hepatitis B issues for years, and insisted that the data and studies have existed for a long time showing the vaccine does not cause autism. 

“Then I will be the first person, if you show me data, I will be the first person to assure the American people that they need to take those vaccines,” Kennedy said. 

Cassidy noted that Kennedy has recently cast doubt on these vaccines, when the Republican senator said these studies are much older. Cassidy asked Kennedy that if the data is brought to him, and these peer-reviewed studies have existed for a long time, will Kennedy clearly state there is no link.

“Not only will I do that, but I will apologize for any statements that misled people otherwise,” Kennedy said. 

Kennedy posed a question in his opening statement, asking why health care costs are so high. 

“The obvious answer to that question is chronic disease,” he said, offering an answer to his own question. 

The nominee did not mention any other factors, like an inefficient health care system, insurance companies or even government mandates. 

Kennedy said he wants to make sure federal funding doesn’t go toward food additives and unhealthy foods.

Speaking second, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, said Kennedy’s frequent phrase “make America healthy again,” is “a goal that all of us share,” but brought up several issues he wants addressed, including universal healthcare. 

“I’m not quite sure how we can move to making America healthy again, unless we have the guts to take on the insurance companies and drug companies and guarantee health care for all people,” Sanders said. 

He also brought up guaranteed paid family and medical leave. 

“How do you have a healthy country when women are forced to go back, when women and men get fired because they stay home taking care of their sick kids? That’s not making America healthy again,” he said. 

Kennedy said he and his wife were “heartbroken” to learn about the American Airlines plane crash in the Potomac the previous night, which “took so many of our fellow Americans, including our service members.”

“We are in an apartment where we were able to see the rescue operations from our window,” he said. “Please know that I will continue to pray for you as I texted you last night, for those who were lost who called your state home, as well as Senators Kaine and Alsobrooks.”

He thanked first responders and local officials who are “working so hard.”

“May God continue to be with us all, and all who are impacted, and those who continue to help with the recovery,” he added. 

He then turned to issues he hopes to address as Health and Human Services secretary, including chronic disease. 

“I’m humbled to be sitting here today as President Trump’s nominee to oversee the US Department of Health and Human Services. I want to thank President Trump for entrusting me to deliver on his promise to make America healthy again,” he said.

The hearing was called to order at 10:04 a.m., after Kennedy shook the hands of many of the senators on the panel. 

Dr. Bill Cassidy, the committee’s chairman, opened the hearing, saying he and Kennedy are “totally” in agreement on limiting ultra-processed foods to curtail diabetes in the country. 

“But it’s no secret I have some reservations about your past positions on vaccines and a couple other issues,” the Louisiana Republican said. 

Cassidy practiced medicine for 30 years working in public hospitals in California and Louisiana, caring for those with liver disease. 

Cassidy offered a story from his life about a patient he treated whose disease was preventable with a vaccine. That inspired Cassidy to work on a public-private partnership that vaccinated 36,000 children for hepatitis B. 

“I know they save lives, I know they’re a crucial part of keeping our nation healthy,” Cassidy said. 

The Republican senator said his phone “blows up” from constituents who follow Kennedy. 

“And there are many who trust you more than they trust their own physician,” Cassidy said. “And so the question I need to have answered is, what will you do with that trust? Whether it’s justified or not … I have constituents who partly credit you for their decision to not vaccinate their child. Now that’s a real conversation.” 

RFK Jr. arrived for the hearing at 9:46 a.m., flanked by aides. 

His wife, Cheryl Hines, is present, too. 

Sen. Tina Smith, a Democrat from Minnesota, used part of her time during Wednesday’s hearing to revisit Kennedy’s stance on abortion, saying the answers he has given to the committee during his confirmation hearing indicate to her that the Trump administration “is more than willing to restrict or even ban medication abortion without a single act of Congress.”

“What is clear to me is that you and President Trump are dangerous to mifepristone,” Smith argued. 

Smith went on to question Kennedy about his views on antidepressants, known as SSRIs.

Finance Committee Chairman Sen. Mike Crapo, a Republican from Idaho, wrapped up Wednesday’s hearing a little after 1:30 p.m., after more than three hours of questioning. He thanked RFK Jr. for the hours he spent outside of the hearing answering senators’ questions, saying he endured “the most thorough vetting process that any committee in this Congress puts anybody through.”

“I think that you have come through well and deserve to be confirmed,” Crapo said. 

During Wednesday’s hearing, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, an independent who caucuses with Democrat, said he strongly agrees with Kennedy’s efforts to make America healthy again, and then, he proceeded to ask him for a “yes” or “no” answer on universal health care.

“Do you agree with me that the United States should join every other major country on Earth and guarantee health care to all people as a human right?” Sanders asked.

“Senator, I can’t give you a yes or no answer to that question,” Kennedy said. 

“In the way that free speech is a right,” he asked. “I would say it’s different, because with free speech, doesn’t cost anybody anything, but in health care, if you smoke cigarettes for 20 years and you get cancer, you are now taking from the poor.”

During Wednesday’s hearing, Sen. Michael Bennet, Democrat of Colorado, grilled Kennedy on statements he’s made in the past on several controversial topics, including COVID-19 and abortion — and reminded him of the weight of the job for which he’s been nominated.

“It doesn’t matter what you come here and say,” Bennet said. “That’s not reflective of what you really believe… Because unlike other jobs we’re confirming around this place, this is a job where it is life and death for the kids that I used to work for in the Denver Public School, and for families all over this country that are suffering from living in the richest country in the world that can’t deliver basic health care and basic mental health care to them.” 

“It’s too important for the games you’re playing,” he told Kennedy.

Bennet said, “Out of 330 million Americans, we’re being asked to put somebody in this job who has spent 50 years of his life … peddling in half-truths, peddling in false statements, peddling in theories that create doubt about whether or not things we know are safe are unsafe.”

• What: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. appears before the Senate HELP Committee
• Date: Thursday, Jan. 30 
• Time: 10 a.m. ET
• Location: U.S. Capitol, Washington D.C
• Online stream: Live on CBS News in the play above and on your mobile and streaming device.