/ CBS News
Full interview: EU’s top diplomat Kaja Kallas
The following is the transcript of an interview with European Union top diplomat Kaja Kallas that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on March 2, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for making time. So you are the EU’s top diplomat, which means you have to help represent 27 different countries. President Trump said the EU was formed in order to screw the United States, that’s the purpose of it. What was your reaction to that remark?
HIGH REPRESENTATIVE VICE PRESIDENT KAJA KALLAS: Europe is a peace project. You know, it was created so that we wouldn’t have wars between the members of European Union, and we haven’t had. And, of course, also to do things together, cooperate more. You know, coming from a country that joined the European Union 20, 20 years ago. Then, we were actually, you know, pushed by the Americans, you know, you will not get into NATO, but, but Europe, the European Union, is something that you should join because it’s, it’s a good project also for the transatlantic relations. So I was quite surprised to hear a comment like that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you know what the President meant by it?
HRVP KALLAS: Well, you have to ask the President, so.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it seems to reflect that there is some fairly high tension with the US at this point.
HRVP KALLAS: Yes. The question is why? We have always been good allies. I mean, we have been working together and we have been friends and allies, what comes to the world in different parts of the world, what is happening. We have been cooperating, whether it comes to Ukraine, whether it comes to, also, Middle East. And we see- in the world, we see powers like Russia, North Korea, Iran, more covertly China, working together. And I think this is the moment where we have to work together as transatlantic partners.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary of State Rubio, you had announced you intended to meet with him while you were here, and then that meeting was canceled. Why?
HRVP KALLAS: Oh, well, it was said that it’s a calendar issues. But I’m sure we are going to meet again, because we had very good meetings in Munich, and there are a lot of topics that we need to discuss. So we are going to meet in G7 in two weeks time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you don’t think this was a slight?
HRVP KALLAS: Well, you have to ask Secretary of State, but, I mean, we have had such good encounters before, so I don’t really read into you know- I know that we are not on top of our calendars. So, so you know things might happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you’re here now, France’s President Emmanuel Macron was just here, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, President Zelenskyy is flying here. Are all of the European leaders coordinating? And if so, what’s the message?
HRVP KALLAS: We are coordinating. And of course, the message is there are several layers. One is that the fight that Ukraine is having is not only about Ukraine sovereignty, but it’s much, much broader. It’s about freedom of the free world, really. It is about the world where international law applies and the world where might does not make right. It is clear that Russia attacked Ukraine. There is one aggressor and one victim. And we need to really make sure that Russia doesn’t attack again. And for that, we need to concentrate our efforts. I mean putting politically and economically pressure on Russia to stop this war, but at the same time also help Ukraine to defend itself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But what you just said, is factually accurate, Russia invaded Ukraine. But the Trump administration has decided now not to say that explicitly, arguing that the President needs negotiating room. Do you think that that’s persuasive to Vladimir Putin?
HRVP KALLAS: Well, it is certainly, you know, a very strong Russian narrative that they want to- want to really push saying that, you know, oh, it’s a conflict between two equal parties, you know. And to clear- I mean, create this chaos where it’s very clear. It is very clear. One country attacked another country, very brutally with force, and is bombing Ukraine every day. I mean, President Trump says that he wants the killing to stop. I don’t think that anybody wants the killing to stop more than the Ukrainians. And in order to achieve that, we should all put the pressure on Putin, because he can stop the killing by not bombing Ukraine and the Ukrainians so that they don’t have to defend themselves. And that’s why our plan, our policies, to really put the pressure on Russia. We shouldn’t overestimate the power of Russia and underestimate our own power. We know that their economy is not doing well. I mean, their inflation is over 20%, their National Fund is almost completely depleted. They don’t have the same revenues from gas and oil that they used to to fund the war machine. So actually, if we concentrate our efforts, we can put the pressure so that they would stop the war, not to offer them anything, you know, on a plate, in addition what they have already done.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So why do you think acknowledging who is responsible does matter?
HRVP KALLAS: Well, it does matter who is responsible, so who is accountable for this as well. And why it also matters is that we have the United Nations Charter where we have agreed how countries are, you know, interacting with each other. And it says very clearly that you can’t attack sovereignty, territorial integrity of another country, and if you do, there are consequences. And why is it important? It is important for small countries in the world for whom this is the only thing that protects them. If we don’t really defend this principle, then we’re going to see all these developments that we don’t want to see. Because all the countries who are afraid of their neighbors will want to go for nuclear weapons, because this is the only thing that protects them. It’s not the international law anymore. And all the countries who have appetite for the neighbors’ territory will want to have a nuclear weapon, because it is the only thing by- you know, threatening to use this weapon, you can have what you- what you want, because this is what Russia is doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And yet, at the United Nations this week, you pointed out the U.S. aligned with “new friends,” Russia, Belarus, Sudan, North Korea, at the UN. The U.S. voted with them and against a European backed resolution about Ukraine that demanded the withdrawal of Russian troops. The Trump administration would say, it’s a UN resolution. It doesn’t have a practical impact. Does it?
HRVP KALLAS: Well, yes, not so directly. It doesn’t have a practical impact, but it- clearly, I mean, it is saying what kind of principles in the world we are supporting. And of course, we were co-sponsoring, together with the United States, the resolution to support Ukraine. And it was a surprise to us that U.S. suddenly changed the position. I must, you know, really point out that we had the resolution drafted together with the new administration, regarding the support for Ukraine. But when they met the Russians, something happened after that, because the behavior changed. So- so the question is, where do we go from here? Our will and- and wish is to work together with our transatlantic partners for the principles that United States has always stood for. I mean, I’m coming from the country that regained our independence in 1991. It was the time when, you know, Ronald Reagan was really pushing hard for, you know, fight for freedom, and- and we are so grateful for America for doing this. Because we got our independence and freedom back, and therefore also the prosperity and the well being of our people. So we are very grateful. And I’m not- and I don’t want to- I don’t want to see this- I don’t want to let this go. I mean, that, America, you know, is- is not fighting for- for freedom and independence, and, you know, the principles, the basic principles, of the international law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Zelenskyy said Ukraine has intelligence that Russia plans to send troops to Belarus, and from there stage forces, either to attack Ukraine or another European country. Do you share that assessment that Russia will continue its march through Europe?
HRVP KALLAS: Russia has been investing more than 9% of its GDP on military. In comparison, European countries are spending 2%. I think my own country is spending over 3%, but- but I think America is spending something around 3 or 4% of its GDP. So if you’re investing so much on the military, you will want to use it again. And that’s why it is very important how we- how we act here. In 2008, they attacked Georgia. Nothing happened. There was not the strong reaction from the West. In 2014, they annexed Crimea and attacked Ukraine. There was not the strong reaction. So, you know, there was a ceasefire, but ceasefire only gave them possibility to regroup and rearm. That’s why it is extremely important that we don’t make the same mistake again. If there is a pause, so they are able to get their forces to gather again, we will just see more wars. Everybody wants peace, but the peace has to be a lasting peace. And for lasting peace, it has to put- the pressure has to be put on Russia so that they don’t do this again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the- President Zelenskyy and President Macron of France have both talked about creating Europe’s own army separate from NATO. Do you see that as likely?
HRVP KALLAS: I mean, NATO is a defense alliance, and- and it is comprised of 32 different armies of, of the NATO member states. So, NATO structure is the military structure, and in terms of war, very important is, who gives orders to whom? So if you have, you know, those through- 32 armies that cooperate together, and you have one structure, then it’s clear who gives orders to whom. If you have–
MARGARET BRENNAN: And right now, it’s the United States to the Supreme Allied Commander.
HRVP KALLAS: Yes, it is true. But the- but the structure- structure is there. I mean, command structure, but also communication, everything that is necessary, how we work together. So if we say that we create a parallel structure, then, you know, when, in terms of crisis, then who gives orders to whom? Because the armies are just the 32. So that’s why I haven’t supported a special European army. I’m just saying that all the armies that are there in Europe, but also in NATO, need to work together.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the EU right now does have sanctions on Russia, and Secretary Rubio has pointed to that, saying, Look, Europe has a say in this. They’re going to have to make their own decisions on sanctions. Do you think you can keep all 27 countries in line and can keep that pressure on Russia?
KAJA KALLAS: We have managed so far and- and, of course, it’s getting harder all the time, but we have managed to keep this unity. And I’m–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Hungary’s Prime Minister threatens that–
KAJA KALLAS: — That is true, but at the same time, I mean, we are also thinking of different plans. Because, you know, for example, the sanctions, the frozen assets, for example. I mean, we see Russia causing damage to Ukraine every day. We know what this costs. So when we have the frozen assets, then it is, you know, the proceeds can be used for, really, the damages that Russia has caused to Ukraine. And there are–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — This is 200 billion Euros–
KAJA KALLAS: — 300 billion.
MARGARET BRENNAN: 300 billion euros of Russian assets that are frozen. But why isn’t that already being tapped? Is it just because the banking system is averse?
KAJA KALLAS: There are several arguments, and some- some countries are not in favor because of the different risks. But I think, you know, in the end, everybody will come to the same conclusion. It shouldn’t be our taxpayers that pay for the damages caused by Russia in Ukraine. It should be Russia who pays.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about the trade dispute that seems to be brewing between the US and the EU. President Trump said he’s going to put a 25% tariff on imports, on cars and all of the things. Do you think that a trade war is avoidable at this point? Do you plan to bring a complaint to the World Trade Organization?
KAJA KALLAS: We don’t want the trade war with United States. I think there are no winners in trade wars. And I mean, yesterday, I was here and watching the news as well, and you hear the news that consumer confidence in United States is dropping. And you know, if you have trade wars, it increases the prices, and in the end, the consumers will pay for this. So- so it is- it is not- I mean, there are no winners in trade wars, and we don’t want to start one. But of course, we will also protect our interest if a trade war is started against us.
10:45:23
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve been meeting with American lawmakers while you’re in Washington. Do you get the sense that any of them are going to persuade President Trump to change his position on Russia?
KAJA KALLAS: There are strong supporters of Ukraine in, I mean, both sides of the aisle and have been very, very much understanding what is going on. I don’t know their relationship with President Trump, but I have seen the strong will that there is. Maybe this critical raw materials deal that President Trump is doing with President Zelenskyy will increase the economic interest of United States in Ukraine. That will, in turn, also give, I mean, the interest- security interest, to protect those economic interests that you have in Ukraine. So, so maybe that is one of the tools.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So that critical minerals deal the US and Ukraine are supposed to jointly invest in doesn’t have any security guarantees for Ukraine.
KAJA KALLAS: It doesn’t have, and- and I mean, we have been saying that, you know, the security of Ukraine is also in the interest of United States, because, as we have been saying, it’s much broader than- than just Ukraine. And when, you know, our American counterparts are talking about China, but at the same time saying that, you know, we can’t step up to Russia. I mean, China is much bigger economy than Russia is, and much bigger army than Russia is. If you’re saying that we can’t step up to Russia, how can we, you know, really be able to step up to China then.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And before I let you go, I want to ask you about Iran. Europe will have to make a decision in the fall about what to do if Iran doesn’t agree to hold diplomatic talks about its nuclear program. What is your sense of whether Iran is going to negotiate away its program?
KAJA KALLAS: We are going to have next Foreign Affairs meeting, Foreign Affairs ministers meeting, and we’re going to discuss Iran. Our common position, how we approach Iran. It is clear the way Iran operates, I mean helping Russia in the war against Ukraine, but also their activities in the Middle East, that we have to have a much stronger stance when it comes to Iran. Because developing a nuclear weapon, it’s extremely dangerous. And there is one of the points where we need to cooperate with the United States as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you very much for your time here today.
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